The catch though is the priest defeats the warrior in the long view of history. That is how the Christians defeated Rome without firing a single shot. I get the frustration many on the right feel with demonic clown world, but if you literally battle them, they will just re-group for another round of fighting. The only way to stop that, is not to fight them, but convert them, a wholly different mindset.
Hmm very wise words, maybe in literature what we need is not another Sturm, or Link, or Sir Gawain but rather a new Frodo. Frodo is more priest and prophet than warrior.
Thank you for your insight, might if I use your quote in my Priest Archetype article I want to type up for next week? I’ll credit you Mr. Raven of course.
"His is the pursuit of Justice." This, along with the desire to protect the weak and defenseless, makes this archetype the clear ancestor of the modern superhero. While ideally both knights and superheroes are supposed to be morally pure, the reality of their activities prevents them from being so.
Too true! Geeze dude, you ever have a wrong take? You always elaborate on my ideas and take them to their best conclusion. Yeah modern superheroes definitely are modernity's Knights in Shining Armour.
I could say the Terran star marines of starshatter are one of Humanity’s knightly orders. Not to mention that the humans were instrumental in the formation of a proper star knight order. Its main goal is to prevent the genocide of indigenous peoples, eviscerate slavers, laser narcos to a most crispy state… and other similar Terran stuff.
One idea I had in mind, was for me to include the Code de Thierry or the ‘Grande Code’ as it is also known in my world. And then to tag you and maybe Kathrine Elaine, Eric Falden and Maximilian Sibbel. And what we do, is write Honour-Code essays for our own worlds, but use them to boost each other as much as our own stacks.
My next idea, was that we’d analyze each other’s Honour codes, say what we liked, disliked and how they might work in our own worlds if they were applied there.
This way we market ourselves and others, and also do the ‘Campbell-level analysis’ or something of each other’s work which would heighten how we’re perceived as fantasy writers.
I’d then pen a Table of Contents for it, and we could then send these essays to Winston Malone to be published in the Library to be marketed there.
I read this article twice, it was so good. On second time, I tried to think of my favourite depiction, and it would have to be the original Musashi. He’s so epic.
About the thrust of the piece - I strongly agree. With those talented authors you cite - along with yourself - the warrior archetype is going to make a comeback on Substack.
Men who aspire to greatness in the real world have been starved of their ideal in fiction. Many, like me, cannot wait for it’s return.
Thanks so much for the high praise, I really appreciate it and hope I can write something even better for the Priest Archetype. As to Musashi, yeah the og novel is soooo cool, its one of my favourites, have you read Genji Monogatari or the Vagabond manga (adaptation of Musashi)? They are both superbe works of fiction.
As to the Warrior making a comeback, I’m striving to do so with Hrothgar from Bear & Cub and also with regards to Jex the Hero. Both are stories meant to be wholly devoted to the Warrior Archetypes with one showing also the Father archetype and the other the Son. Might have to write about those too.
I've not written on them yet, but plan to. Not sure how they might differ, I'm thinking I'll need to sit down and write the article after doing some research before I can answer for sure.
Mmm, just off the top off my head, I could imagine the difference could be simply who it is the warrior is protecting. Father it is his children/wife; son it is his parents. Not too sure. But then I guess there is other archetype specific stuff, like being a teacher if you are a father, and fulfilling your parents wishes if you are son. The first two that pop in my head is boromir and Faramir as sons, in slightly different ways, but I don’t know if they count, and then of course denethor.
Thanks for the shout out , Bros! I just want to say a little bit. Not a lot, because I don't really put a lot of thought into my stuff. I don't look at Archetypes, or Class Distinction, or any of that stuff when I write. I'm using one book for my "research," LE MORTE D'ARTHUR. I'm using it because I don't think any of the others matter. I could look for other stories, and sources, the German and French Versions, but I like Mallory because I like the language of it.
My hero, Locksley, has come to Camelot at a bad time. It's near the end of Arthur's reign. Modred and the Orkney knights are scheming against him -- except for Gawain and Gareth. Gawain is seeking vengeance against Pellinore and Lamorak, and is willing to break whatever code he must, to see his vengeance through to the end. I didn't set out to do it for any particular reason. I just know that he kills Lamorak (in Mallory) for fucking his mother, so it just sort of worked out that way. Bedivere on the other hand, is known as Arthur's first-made Knight and last, so you know he survives. He's the one that tosses Excalibur back into the Lake. Grummer will also survive, but that's because I wrote my Dragon story IN DAYS OF VAST DARING before I wrote this, and in it he has lost a leg. Losing that leg is why he misses the Final Countdown to Arthur's death. I don't know what I'm going to do with Locksley though. Do I send him out like D'Artagnan, dying on the last page?
The story I'm writing is something I started in my head years ago. It's lain dormant in there for quite a few years. I wrote the TABLE OF CONTENTS when I was a kid! That's what I'm using as my plot. I'm writing this by the seat of my pants. When I get stuck in the plot, I literally talk my way out of it through dialogue. I wish I could say there was all sorts of 'psyche' shit here in planning it out, but there isn't.
The bottom line? I just want to write an "adventure" story that was a weekly Serial, like PRINCE VALIANT, and THE THREE MUSKETEERS, only more grown up.
I get that, I do so love Gauvain, and as to your characters you write them because I believe somewhere in you the archetype is known but he sprouts and grows and becomes the character your consciousness needs him to be.
Think of Archetypes as simply the rudimentaries of the character. It’s the barest of bones. On his own he can’t be a character because he isn’t.
Locksley is great not because he is an archetype, but because he’s a character. The thing though is he’s also an archetype, but that was just the foundation, and that foundation grew into the character you’ve moulded with your mind and writings. You see? This is how it is written by Campbell and others, and how I perceive it.
You write great serials, they are raw, they are glorious, they have archetypes as founding stones but those stones evolve in a matter of minutes into characters with full emotions, backstory, desires, dreams, hopes and all that stuff. It’s how Tolkien & Howard wrote also.
Locksley is a great character and I LOVE Dumas, I’ve loved him since I was a ‘wee lad’ and so though it might be tomorrow I’m hoping to finally be able to pay in so I can read more of him.
"The logo which holo-projected after Kera gently poked around the program’s defenses was that of a silvery lion, standing on a star encrusted shield, holding swords in each paw. For certain that was a Terran crest, yet it took Kera a couple of minutes to rummage through her extensive memories and discover a relevant piece of information.
Not surprisingly, the obscure medical literature which she had hungrily devoured during her captivity included (by pure chance) a Terran article written by one of their geneticists. That man was captured and promptly executed for his apparent, most grievous, crimes against the Vaugn Matriarchy. The letter of confession which he was supposed to personally holo-sign and authenticate was only stamped with a lion’s head, therefore even in death the human defied his captors. Unable to holovize the execution without his real signature, the Vaugn tried burying the whole episode in deep G-net... exactly where Kera was lurking, limbless, imprisoned in her laboratory tank.
Rumors of those sneaky shadow congregations had reached as far as her and the industrious Avern’a entertained the notion (rightfully) that this man had tried to help a pre-sentient culture. After more and covert research, Kera was proven correct. She had noticed that crest again, this time on the hilt of a sword, which a warrior had wielded in battle against the forces of her then owners. Part of a garbled holo-recording, it nevertheless demonstrated to her that her mistresses were not all-powerful, that their forces could be bested.
Wearing nothing but a light field armor and armed with a shield and vibrosword, this warrior managed to kill half a Shield team, before the Matriarchs felled him. The secretive group which this warrior belonged to she later found out was called the Star Knights; a name so very typical for the selfless and enigmatic humans. So quaint and also so full of imminent hope, that she instantly loved it. The crest which this Algo bore was an updated design, either that or perhaps the organization had different sects within itself, all wearing special and distinct coats of arms."
Kera is already established star witch character in my Starshatter series. She is my best attempt at writing a Joan of arc character archetype. You remember, they also called her a witch...
Ahh yes, a shame that they could be so barbarous, when Jehanne D’Arc uhhh too few words to describe her. I’ve got to now look up her lettres (en francais). And see about reading them.
Conversing with the Universe in Kera's case is one of the reason why the Vaugn Matriarchy finds her people so interesting. Junior matriarchs use the avern'a as test subjects for special cybernetics, so the data can be later sold to one of their allies, the Jaern soul huntresses.
The Jaern are cannibalistic, and their soul priestesses serve a thing they call The One, the Dark Hunter, Lord of Minds, and Collector of Souls. In exchange of more and more hollow power, they feed it the souls of their food. Their so called god savors souls which have suffered a lot the most.
The catch though is the priest defeats the warrior in the long view of history. That is how the Christians defeated Rome without firing a single shot. I get the frustration many on the right feel with demonic clown world, but if you literally battle them, they will just re-group for another round of fighting. The only way to stop that, is not to fight them, but convert them, a wholly different mindset.
Hmm very wise words, maybe in literature what we need is not another Sturm, or Link, or Sir Gawain but rather a new Frodo. Frodo is more priest and prophet than warrior.
Thank you for your insight, might if I use your quote in my Priest Archetype article I want to type up for next week? I’ll credit you Mr. Raven of course.
"His is the pursuit of Justice." This, along with the desire to protect the weak and defenseless, makes this archetype the clear ancestor of the modern superhero. While ideally both knights and superheroes are supposed to be morally pure, the reality of their activities prevents them from being so.
Too true! Geeze dude, you ever have a wrong take? You always elaborate on my ideas and take them to their best conclusion. Yeah modern superheroes definitely are modernity's Knights in Shining Armour.
I love this archetype so much.
Same!
I could say the Terran star marines of starshatter are one of Humanity’s knightly orders. Not to mention that the humans were instrumental in the formation of a proper star knight order. Its main goal is to prevent the genocide of indigenous peoples, eviscerate slavers, laser narcos to a most crispy state… and other similar Terran stuff.
https://theblackknight.substack.com/p/rise-a-guardian
Interesting stuff.
I should post something about the Terran star knight order.
That’d be cool.
One idea I had in mind, was for me to include the Code de Thierry or the ‘Grande Code’ as it is also known in my world. And then to tag you and maybe Kathrine Elaine, Eric Falden and Maximilian Sibbel. And what we do, is write Honour-Code essays for our own worlds, but use them to boost each other as much as our own stacks.
My next idea, was that we’d analyze each other’s Honour codes, say what we liked, disliked and how they might work in our own worlds if they were applied there.
This way we market ourselves and others, and also do the ‘Campbell-level analysis’ or something of each other’s work which would heighten how we’re perceived as fantasy writers.
I’d then pen a Table of Contents for it, and we could then send these essays to Winston Malone to be published in the Library to be marketed there.
I’d have to find my notes on my Code though.
Thoughts?
I read this article twice, it was so good. On second time, I tried to think of my favourite depiction, and it would have to be the original Musashi. He’s so epic.
About the thrust of the piece - I strongly agree. With those talented authors you cite - along with yourself - the warrior archetype is going to make a comeback on Substack.
Men who aspire to greatness in the real world have been starved of their ideal in fiction. Many, like me, cannot wait for it’s return.
Thanks so much for the high praise, I really appreciate it and hope I can write something even better for the Priest Archetype. As to Musashi, yeah the og novel is soooo cool, its one of my favourites, have you read Genji Monogatari or the Vagabond manga (adaptation of Musashi)? They are both superbe works of fiction.
As to the Warrior making a comeback, I’m striving to do so with Hrothgar from Bear & Cub and also with regards to Jex the Hero. Both are stories meant to be wholly devoted to the Warrior Archetypes with one showing also the Father archetype and the other the Son. Might have to write about those too.
No I don’t know that specific one; but I used to have an old school lead model of him haha (I used collect and paint Warhammer 40k miniatures).
You’ve written on those archetypes before, no? How do they slightly differ?
I've not written on them yet, but plan to. Not sure how they might differ, I'm thinking I'll need to sit down and write the article after doing some research before I can answer for sure.
Mmm, just off the top off my head, I could imagine the difference could be simply who it is the warrior is protecting. Father it is his children/wife; son it is his parents. Not too sure. But then I guess there is other archetype specific stuff, like being a teacher if you are a father, and fulfilling your parents wishes if you are son. The first two that pop in my head is boromir and Faramir as sons, in slightly different ways, but I don’t know if they count, and then of course denethor.
All good points, I’ll have to think on that and maybe come at it from that point of view, you’ve given me a lot to think about!
Thanks for the shout out , Bros! I just want to say a little bit. Not a lot, because I don't really put a lot of thought into my stuff. I don't look at Archetypes, or Class Distinction, or any of that stuff when I write. I'm using one book for my "research," LE MORTE D'ARTHUR. I'm using it because I don't think any of the others matter. I could look for other stories, and sources, the German and French Versions, but I like Mallory because I like the language of it.
My hero, Locksley, has come to Camelot at a bad time. It's near the end of Arthur's reign. Modred and the Orkney knights are scheming against him -- except for Gawain and Gareth. Gawain is seeking vengeance against Pellinore and Lamorak, and is willing to break whatever code he must, to see his vengeance through to the end. I didn't set out to do it for any particular reason. I just know that he kills Lamorak (in Mallory) for fucking his mother, so it just sort of worked out that way. Bedivere on the other hand, is known as Arthur's first-made Knight and last, so you know he survives. He's the one that tosses Excalibur back into the Lake. Grummer will also survive, but that's because I wrote my Dragon story IN DAYS OF VAST DARING before I wrote this, and in it he has lost a leg. Losing that leg is why he misses the Final Countdown to Arthur's death. I don't know what I'm going to do with Locksley though. Do I send him out like D'Artagnan, dying on the last page?
The story I'm writing is something I started in my head years ago. It's lain dormant in there for quite a few years. I wrote the TABLE OF CONTENTS when I was a kid! That's what I'm using as my plot. I'm writing this by the seat of my pants. When I get stuck in the plot, I literally talk my way out of it through dialogue. I wish I could say there was all sorts of 'psyche' shit here in planning it out, but there isn't.
The bottom line? I just want to write an "adventure" story that was a weekly Serial, like PRINCE VALIANT, and THE THREE MUSKETEERS, only more grown up.
I get that, I do so love Gauvain, and as to your characters you write them because I believe somewhere in you the archetype is known but he sprouts and grows and becomes the character your consciousness needs him to be.
Think of Archetypes as simply the rudimentaries of the character. It’s the barest of bones. On his own he can’t be a character because he isn’t.
Locksley is great not because he is an archetype, but because he’s a character. The thing though is he’s also an archetype, but that was just the foundation, and that foundation grew into the character you’ve moulded with your mind and writings. You see? This is how it is written by Campbell and others, and how I perceive it.
You write great serials, they are raw, they are glorious, they have archetypes as founding stones but those stones evolve in a matter of minutes into characters with full emotions, backstory, desires, dreams, hopes and all that stuff. It’s how Tolkien & Howard wrote also.
Wow man, you’re putting me in some pretty heady company, there. I’m glad you like my story.
Locksley is a great character and I LOVE Dumas, I’ve loved him since I was a ‘wee lad’ and so though it might be tomorrow I’m hoping to finally be able to pay in so I can read more of him.
Thanks for the shout out, man. Another great read, too.
I’ll do another, as I think double or nothing on my end is only right X)
"The logo which holo-projected after Kera gently poked around the program’s defenses was that of a silvery lion, standing on a star encrusted shield, holding swords in each paw. For certain that was a Terran crest, yet it took Kera a couple of minutes to rummage through her extensive memories and discover a relevant piece of information.
Not surprisingly, the obscure medical literature which she had hungrily devoured during her captivity included (by pure chance) a Terran article written by one of their geneticists. That man was captured and promptly executed for his apparent, most grievous, crimes against the Vaugn Matriarchy. The letter of confession which he was supposed to personally holo-sign and authenticate was only stamped with a lion’s head, therefore even in death the human defied his captors. Unable to holovize the execution without his real signature, the Vaugn tried burying the whole episode in deep G-net... exactly where Kera was lurking, limbless, imprisoned in her laboratory tank.
Rumors of those sneaky shadow congregations had reached as far as her and the industrious Avern’a entertained the notion (rightfully) that this man had tried to help a pre-sentient culture. After more and covert research, Kera was proven correct. She had noticed that crest again, this time on the hilt of a sword, which a warrior had wielded in battle against the forces of her then owners. Part of a garbled holo-recording, it nevertheless demonstrated to her that her mistresses were not all-powerful, that their forces could be bested.
Wearing nothing but a light field armor and armed with a shield and vibrosword, this warrior managed to kill half a Shield team, before the Matriarchs felled him. The secretive group which this warrior belonged to she later found out was called the Star Knights; a name so very typical for the selfless and enigmatic humans. So quaint and also so full of imminent hope, that she instantly loved it. The crest which this Algo bore was an updated design, either that or perhaps the organization had different sects within itself, all wearing special and distinct coats of arms."
Coooool and I like her name, and the imagery of a silver-lion! You’ve GOT to use that in your sequel to the Lord of Bones!
Kera is already established star witch character in my Starshatter series. She is my best attempt at writing a Joan of arc character archetype. You remember, they also called her a witch...
Ahh yes, a shame that they could be so barbarous, when Jehanne D’Arc uhhh too few words to describe her. I’ve got to now look up her lettres (en francais). And see about reading them.
Conversing with the Universe in Kera's case is one of the reason why the Vaugn Matriarchy finds her people so interesting. Junior matriarchs use the avern'a as test subjects for special cybernetics, so the data can be later sold to one of their allies, the Jaern soul huntresses.
I see
The Jaern are cannibalistic, and their soul priestesses serve a thing they call The One, the Dark Hunter, Lord of Minds, and Collector of Souls. In exchange of more and more hollow power, they feed it the souls of their food. Their so called god savors souls which have suffered a lot the most.
Perfect timing! I just introduced my Warrior/Knight archetype in Dolen the dwarf in https://tranithargan.substack.com/p/chapter-fifteen-sailing-to-shanaar
Checking him out now