By your reckoning, Sonja seems to be a combination of the Wandering Jew and H. Rider Haggard's She: eternally young but at the price of never being able to fit in, anywhere. (And it must be uncomfortable in more than one way going around in a chain-mail bikini). My feelings are quite similar. It reflects the double standard at the heart of sword and sorcery: Conan, as a man, can wander and fight and steal without people questioning his masculinity, while Sonja, in contrast, is always being judged and misjudged for her feminine attributes.
That is not my point at all; She might be one possible conclusion but I think that we judge Conan positively for the same thing we’d judge Sonja positively for, if it was done with her; a conclusion to the story. The other aspect is that as a character when others aid him, Conan thanks them, Sonja does not.
My notion is that she must be allowed to have an end to her story and there must be one grand tale with well-developed characters.
Conan has had this several times over and people loved it.
Sonja has not had this, and so remains little more than a sex-icon because that is all that the writers wish her to be. They need to conclude her story and fill it with compelling situations and characters.
Of course, Conan is a well-known figure in media besides comics, and Sonja hasn't done too well at that. That makes a big difference in how they are treated.
To an extent, I think with a good novel and a conclusion to her story one way or the other; hedonist or Queen, she could become well-regarded.
The other reason Conan is so well known and beloved is that he was written by a writer of comparable skill to Tolkien and tapped into more than a chainmail bikini. He’s the ultimate King archetype, a positive figure like King Arthur and embodies everything that Texas loves and believes in and values. This is very attractive, he is the ‘Aragorn Elessar II’ of Texas.
I must admit at the start that I've never read much of Red Sonja. I've maybe peeked into a comic here and there over the years, and I saw the movie a very long while ago, (long enough that I remember next to nothing about it) and it's important I make that clear because what I'm about to say is based solely in your words on the character. As such, a grain of salt might be required here.
Now then, after reading your essay, a realization struck me about the stagnancy of Red Sonja's character. Based on how you've described her, she's a young-ish, good looking, tough, violent, and somewhat ambitious warrior woman seeking to test her strength and dominate both the men and women present in her life. She seems to put in a lot of work to do these things - she saves hapless princesses from evil kings, princes, or other men who would use them; she tries to amass wealth and lovers; she revels in conflict in the name of her Scarlet Goddess. She has the most basic building blocks of what could be a female mirror to Conan, as you more or less say.
Yet every single one of her accomplishments is decidedly temporary. She works to save these princesses, but does nothing to help stabilize the nations her actions threw into disarray. She gathers lovers to her, only to engage in conflict with them and drive them away. Perhaps most notably, though, she amasses wealth and treasure, only to then abandon it in search of the next thrill.
Red Sonja isn't just a stagnant and tarnished mirror of Conan. Yes, she reflects a poorly understood and largely inaccurate version of his character, but upon thinking about the course she takes it becomes clear there's more to it than just that. Red Sonja is someone who revels in the excesses of the moment. She seeks the pleasures of the now, with no thought as to the consequences of what comes after. Not unlike the gangster gambler who dies and goes to a "heavenly" casino where always wins in that famous episode of the Twilight Zone, (spoiler alert: he's NOT in Heaven) Red Sonja seeks the thrills and pleasures that come with risk, and little else.
I knew you’d get it, that’s it exactly! You worded it even better than I could and arrived at the conclusion I had only hinted at.
She is indeed a hedonist, and that’s the sad part about her; she could be so much more yet amounts to little more than someone like Matahachi was in the Musashi novel; endlessly chasing Musashi’s shadow. But at least Matahachi had the good sense to eventually quit trying to do this, and to play to his own strength, put hedonism aside and to become a good father.
Have you seen her motion comic based on the Gale Simone arc Queen of Plagues? It was enjoyable enough, but everything you say is true there too. It would be no spoiler for me to tell you that she starts and ends the story in the same exact place, only with more corpses under her feet. Which is less than can be said for Conan in some Howard originals, even if he often reappears in a completely different place with a completely different occupation the next time we see him. What’s especially jarring is how much effort is made in that one to give her genuine ties and bonds and emotional journeys, all for her to be the same person by the end.
They always do that; they give her a really compelling support cast or characters she meets (one’s that could carry a title) and then she ditches them to go off and be the same situation as at the beginning. It’s frustrating!
As to Conan, we know that he is en route to become King of Aquilonia, even as we see some stories where he is King. Once King his journey becomes about liberating Aquilonia & Zenobia, then protecting his family and Kingdom. We see the progression of his life in natural, well written steps. Yet not with Red Sonja.
There's a certain amount of irony when it comes to Red Sonja. They've tried so hard to make her relevant as a feminist icon, yet her fan base is centered around the ones that enjoy her predominantly for her sex appeal. They can't make her matter because in mainstream comic books, nothing ever does, not even death. Her portrayal as uncaring and unable to succeed, I think, is largely due to the gross misunderstanding of her character and the lack of care from those that own the rights to her.
She's doomed for failure.
It's also why the Robert E. Howard character she is based on, Red Sonya of Rogatino is vastly superior.
You’re absolutely right, they need to re-evaluate the character, what they’re trying to do with her and redevelop her, revamp her and rebrand her. But they can’t ‘cause it’d mean getting rid of status quo and feminism where she’s concerned.
And if they leaned full-tilt into feminist hero then they'd lose the established fan base. Some dudes lose their mind if they don't see the (impractical) chainmail bikini, despite her original appearance.
Agreed, I remember seeing her blue-dress armour from the 80s and thinking that was her best look but for some reason some people lose their minds if they change it.
As a Robert E. Howard purist (letting the original movies slide for the sake of nostalgia), Red Sonja is nothing but a Marvel creation and has no place in Howard's canon for Conan. She should be looked at as Marvel fan fiction, just like everything they have done with Conan.
Can’t argue with you good sir, as I do agree to a large extent. I think RS could have been something but they just misused her. She was Valeria-lite and only got worse and worse over the years.
By your reckoning, Sonja seems to be a combination of the Wandering Jew and H. Rider Haggard's She: eternally young but at the price of never being able to fit in, anywhere. (And it must be uncomfortable in more than one way going around in a chain-mail bikini). My feelings are quite similar. It reflects the double standard at the heart of sword and sorcery: Conan, as a man, can wander and fight and steal without people questioning his masculinity, while Sonja, in contrast, is always being judged and misjudged for her feminine attributes.
That is not my point at all; She might be one possible conclusion but I think that we judge Conan positively for the same thing we’d judge Sonja positively for, if it was done with her; a conclusion to the story. The other aspect is that as a character when others aid him, Conan thanks them, Sonja does not.
My notion is that she must be allowed to have an end to her story and there must be one grand tale with well-developed characters.
Conan has had this several times over and people loved it.
Sonja has not had this, and so remains little more than a sex-icon because that is all that the writers wish her to be. They need to conclude her story and fill it with compelling situations and characters.
Of course, Conan is a well-known figure in media besides comics, and Sonja hasn't done too well at that. That makes a big difference in how they are treated.
To an extent, I think with a good novel and a conclusion to her story one way or the other; hedonist or Queen, she could become well-regarded.
The other reason Conan is so well known and beloved is that he was written by a writer of comparable skill to Tolkien and tapped into more than a chainmail bikini. He’s the ultimate King archetype, a positive figure like King Arthur and embodies everything that Texas loves and believes in and values. This is very attractive, he is the ‘Aragorn Elessar II’ of Texas.
I must admit at the start that I've never read much of Red Sonja. I've maybe peeked into a comic here and there over the years, and I saw the movie a very long while ago, (long enough that I remember next to nothing about it) and it's important I make that clear because what I'm about to say is based solely in your words on the character. As such, a grain of salt might be required here.
Now then, after reading your essay, a realization struck me about the stagnancy of Red Sonja's character. Based on how you've described her, she's a young-ish, good looking, tough, violent, and somewhat ambitious warrior woman seeking to test her strength and dominate both the men and women present in her life. She seems to put in a lot of work to do these things - she saves hapless princesses from evil kings, princes, or other men who would use them; she tries to amass wealth and lovers; she revels in conflict in the name of her Scarlet Goddess. She has the most basic building blocks of what could be a female mirror to Conan, as you more or less say.
Yet every single one of her accomplishments is decidedly temporary. She works to save these princesses, but does nothing to help stabilize the nations her actions threw into disarray. She gathers lovers to her, only to engage in conflict with them and drive them away. Perhaps most notably, though, she amasses wealth and treasure, only to then abandon it in search of the next thrill.
Red Sonja isn't just a stagnant and tarnished mirror of Conan. Yes, she reflects a poorly understood and largely inaccurate version of his character, but upon thinking about the course she takes it becomes clear there's more to it than just that. Red Sonja is someone who revels in the excesses of the moment. She seeks the pleasures of the now, with no thought as to the consequences of what comes after. Not unlike the gangster gambler who dies and goes to a "heavenly" casino where always wins in that famous episode of the Twilight Zone, (spoiler alert: he's NOT in Heaven) Red Sonja seeks the thrills and pleasures that come with risk, and little else.
Red Sonja is a hedonist.
I knew you’d get it, that’s it exactly! You worded it even better than I could and arrived at the conclusion I had only hinted at.
She is indeed a hedonist, and that’s the sad part about her; she could be so much more yet amounts to little more than someone like Matahachi was in the Musashi novel; endlessly chasing Musashi’s shadow. But at least Matahachi had the good sense to eventually quit trying to do this, and to play to his own strength, put hedonism aside and to become a good father.
Have you seen her motion comic based on the Gale Simone arc Queen of Plagues? It was enjoyable enough, but everything you say is true there too. It would be no spoiler for me to tell you that she starts and ends the story in the same exact place, only with more corpses under her feet. Which is less than can be said for Conan in some Howard originals, even if he often reappears in a completely different place with a completely different occupation the next time we see him. What’s especially jarring is how much effort is made in that one to give her genuine ties and bonds and emotional journeys, all for her to be the same person by the end.
They always do that; they give her a really compelling support cast or characters she meets (one’s that could carry a title) and then she ditches them to go off and be the same situation as at the beginning. It’s frustrating!
As to Conan, we know that he is en route to become King of Aquilonia, even as we see some stories where he is King. Once King his journey becomes about liberating Aquilonia & Zenobia, then protecting his family and Kingdom. We see the progression of his life in natural, well written steps. Yet not with Red Sonja.
I can't remember what Spiderman issue has it have to Google it
Ah d’acc, take your time
There's a certain amount of irony when it comes to Red Sonja. They've tried so hard to make her relevant as a feminist icon, yet her fan base is centered around the ones that enjoy her predominantly for her sex appeal. They can't make her matter because in mainstream comic books, nothing ever does, not even death. Her portrayal as uncaring and unable to succeed, I think, is largely due to the gross misunderstanding of her character and the lack of care from those that own the rights to her.
She's doomed for failure.
It's also why the Robert E. Howard character she is based on, Red Sonya of Rogatino is vastly superior.
You’re absolutely right, they need to re-evaluate the character, what they’re trying to do with her and redevelop her, revamp her and rebrand her. But they can’t ‘cause it’d mean getting rid of status quo and feminism where she’s concerned.
And if they leaned full-tilt into feminist hero then they'd lose the established fan base. Some dudes lose their mind if they don't see the (impractical) chainmail bikini, despite her original appearance.
Agreed, I remember seeing her blue-dress armour from the 80s and thinking that was her best look but for some reason some people lose their minds if they change it.
"Fandom"
What can you do?
Ouais, I suppose.
Red Sonja Rules
Hahaha, np, I still appreciate you reading this article. Any thoughts on how the status-quo has done her dirty my good sir?
They once used Mary Jane Watson as a alto ego
Really? Is there art of that? I’d like to see it, and discover the comic book issues for it. Might be interesting reading.
As a Robert E. Howard purist (letting the original movies slide for the sake of nostalgia), Red Sonja is nothing but a Marvel creation and has no place in Howard's canon for Conan. She should be looked at as Marvel fan fiction, just like everything they have done with Conan.
Can’t argue with you good sir, as I do agree to a large extent. I think RS could have been something but they just misused her. She was Valeria-lite and only got worse and worse over the years.
Good article
Merci
Savage excoriation
I guess it is
I suppose haha