With respect, the Papacy despite its issues (not denying it) is still the only way to go. As St. Peter once said, "to whom shall we go?"
I grew up in a low church evangelical setting. I'm familiar with "churches" breaking apart because of doctrinal issues or egos. This is where an overly spiritualized view of what "the Church" leads.
So issue goes, how do we live up to the Gautier's ideal even in the face of bad actors within the Church (who unfortunately had the Pope's ear). Honestly, I'm not sure. But I do know there is nobility in knights who are obedient to their lords even if said lords were not particularly good people. It's easy to obey when you're rewarded for your obedience. And I think this is (one reason) why God allows bad actors to enter into the Church, to test us.
So that's my take on that particular issue. Anyways, I'm looking forward to see what you have to say about the other "commandments" of chivalry. I'm actually aware of Gautier's book and have dug through a little bit thanks to the Internet Archive, though I didn't get very far for whatever reason.
I found the "Ten Commandments of Chivalry" (which I first learned from Charles Coulombe) in particular to be very eye opening. That's how I understand that chivalry is more than "simping" for some girl.
I trace my religious and ethnic heritage back to the founding stock of New England Calvinists. Certainly like any cultural and religious group they have their flaws and mistakes. But they recognized the reality of and irremovability of hierarchy and God's abiding sovereignty. They led the way in the struggle for independence. They sought to promote strong and effective governance to the best of their ability.
Many of their successor denominational groups have copped out to lazy Romans 13 application and political compromise, but I won't. And I hold onto the good within my local congregation and seek to challenge Current Year thinking if and when it ever reads it's ugly heads.
Good on you, mon ami I myself am French Catholique. And the thing is we tend to follow the Church up until she acts like a buffoon or contradicts France, and her various former colonies' peoples' wishes. So that for example Bergoglio is not prayed for to my knowledge in masses, and is resented, with the French Catechisme claiming that France is special in God's eyes.
So we have always tended to be 'Bible & France first, and Church under advisory', as a people, which I guess is why I see no contradiction in honouring it but favouring my people and the Bible more. The sort of nonsense Bergoglio is getting up to is ridiculous, and insulting.
So yeah totally agree with you that God's teachings should come first, and speaking to other Catholics the world over it seems to be the general opinion.
Do you have a time table for this series to run? I got a short story scheduled with Léon Gautier’s work as the main character’s focus. And I kind of want to see if I’m on the right track. My character that’s following the code is a child. I don’t want to distract from your work with a flawed child's point of view. Also it should be a novelette and might rewrite it.
Sure, so it is a history story? I could definitely read it and will include it as part of my reviews in the coming days as I'm also reading a piece by Maryh and Alexander Semenyuk I think it is, so I'll put yours into the same review I'm hoping to have it done for Tuesday or Thursday.
Not history. It's an Invasion Day story. Claudius van Felt deals with his difficult childhood by following the Code of Chivalry. As he understands it. Then the aliens attack. So, dark comedy, super hero, urban fantasy. Yours is a more serious work. I'm going to reschedule. As of now it'll post Fed 10th. I want to read yours before making a final post. I see it as a timing thing.
We need more positive adventure, hero fiction. I would take a lighter hand to this but Invasion Day is not meant to be serious and Claudius is about 16 years old. So he quotes the Code to himself as he confronts problems. I'm still considering this one a ruff draft of a bigger story later. Invasion Day: The Monster.
Superhero? I'm not a fan of that genre, BUT this sounds fascinant, and add to that that my dad's name was Claude (French variant of Claudius) and you've got me sold. So okay, I'm gonna read it, please tag me when it comes out and I will analyse and review it in a post (I'm begging here especially since you're including Chivalry also with it).
Ps- when you pray for "The intentions of the Pope" in the Rosary, you aren't praying for that particular Pope's intentions, but the universal intentions that every good Pope should have. This comes with a plenary indulgence too.
I will have a raIther long answer to this. The Church was formed by Jesus under Peter. Mt 16:"[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it."
Nothing evil, and nothing will overcome HIS CHURCH over PETER.
Jesus put an Authority over his Church for a reason. As you can easily see, without an authority, a denomination falls into cultural lies and appeasement and loses the Truth. You see denominations that approve of abortion, etc.
2. The Church IS Jesus. "I am the way, the Truth and the Life," jhn 14:6, RSV
When Saul then later Paul was knocked to the ground by Jesus, He said
[4] "And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" Acts 9:4. RSV
Jesus didn't say, why do you persecute MY PEOPLE, but ME?
The Church And He ARE ONE.
3. The problem of Francis. The Pope, because of his office, has the God given ability of Infallibilty. He can't make an error teaching a Church DOCTRINE of faith or morals. He is NOT impeccable, however, which means that every word out of his mouth is perfect.
Francis often tetters on the edge of teaching heresy. There, I said it.
But he doesn't cross the line. Often, he uses "pastoral concerns" to cover his near heresy.
In other words, 'be kind, darnnit, and stop being 'rigid', seems to be his hang- up. He forgets that ultimately teaching Truth is the ultimate Love, because Jesus IS Truth and Love. Only these things together are agape Love- or Love that truly works for the good of the other. Jesus taught hard Truths in love.
4. We had had much worse Pope's in history and the Church is still here. This is proof that the Church is supernatural.
5. What to do with Francis? My strategery.
-We do owe him respect as Holy Father.
-Pray for him. He is surrounded by evil and I think he has lost the voice of Jesus.
-Trust that Jesus will take care of his Church. Jesus will also smite a Pope before he falls into heresy.
- learn your faith inside and out.
6. "Pope Fiction" by Patrick Madrid is an enlightening book about this area. A quick read.
I tend to think of Popes as mortal, but I do understand your perspective, I just tend to think of Jesus as the guide and the Church second, with my nature being one of suspicion towards Popes due to the nature of those such as Alexander VI.
I would say we need to obey the Church and not the poor church leaders of today. The Church exists in the past, the present and the future. And therefore, we continue to share the Gospel in line with the traditions laid down for us.
If a Modern or Post-Modern church leader presents ideas outside these traditions, or even contradictory ideas, they are to be ignored. And we continue to obey the Church’s teaching throughout time.
A final point, there is a difference between the King of England and the Crown. They are two separate things.
Equally, Pope Francis is different to the Papal See. Francis is the human who occupies this at the moment. This may not be accurate Catholic teachings, but it’s how I see things.
A friend was a missionary in pagan parts. It was hard for him to explain all this church stuff to heathens and it ended up all boiling down to something along the lines of “Look, just ask God what he wants you to do, and then go do it.” Not a very financially viable business model in an industry where the standard membership fee is a 10% tithe. He’s not a missionary anymore but he still lives among the pagans, who are really wonderful, special people. Church or no church, we’re all free to ask God: where are you and where should I be?
Good point, sorry for taking so long to reply. I've begun to think that the more you turn faith into a business, or a concrete organisation the more you move away from the teachings, and the lessons of God, which weirdly seems to offend some I know and have met here and in other places. I just don't like mixing money and faith together.
Oh I see, that's interesting, hmm back in the day the Jesuits would favour a confrontational approach where they'd use traditional philosophy and classic lit, and knowledge of the other culture's lit to deconstruct it, and then paint a rosier image of Christianity. This was why they were dubbed by some historians the 'shock-troopers of the Faith'. Trouble is that modern historians came to hate them, while the actual Jesuits were a fascinating bunch back when they were responsible for converting people to Christianity.
As to your friend sounds like he had an interesting career. I think that what is most important is a personal relationship with God, and not one where you have an intermediary as intermediaries tend to if they are corrupted mislead you. Though, this is not always the case, some priests I've known for example are excellent and inspiring guys, and hilarious (i've known two who could have been (and kind of should also been) stand-up comedians.
Jesuits are generally very cerebral. They were tasked with reversing the Protestant reformation. Obviously, they failed. One really great spiritual gift they gave us is the Discernment of Spirits, or The Rules of St Ignatius. I spent a year studying these and it was invaluable in my spiritual life. If you ever get a chance to learn these, do. Gallagher, online is great too.
That's pretty cool, I'd love to learn the Discernment of Spirits & Rules of St-Ignatius, is there a good site or book you might recommend on these topics?
All the Christian Bibles use the same text, except some have more books than others.
The key though, is not which Bible, but how to interpret it. It is an ancient book, which has an ancient worldview. If you read it without appreciating this, you can come to some poor conclusions.
I’d start by getting a good study Bible with notes on how to apply it to your life. Ask your priest or pastor. 👍🏽
That argument could go on forever. First, find one that you will read. And read the Gospels. Many like the NIV Bible. I prefer the RSV Catholic version.
I think we must honour our parents and elders, but that we should recognise their flaws alongside their virtues. True love isn't the refusal to see another's flaws but loving the person in spite of their flaws or flaws and all.
As to nobles and monarchs used to like them, then had a rude awakening a few years ago, and then when it came to Popes I've always been suspicious of them. I'm a historian, so reading the history and how many Popes were crooks and gangsters left me cold towards the office, St-Peter set a high bar but even he was criticised at the time by St-Paul (my fav Saint alongside St-Jehanne D'Arc). So my view is that if Paul could criticise and hold Peter's feet to the fire so can we mere mortals.
We shouldn't worship the pope and say he's infallible as only God is infallible. And Popes aren't God, somehow I think the two have blurred at some point in people's eyes. Also Tolkien one of the men I admire the most was critical of many Popes, and for legitimate reasons.
So yeah I definitely agree avec vous there on this topic.
I'm familiar with the Mandate of Heaven, Confucius and other such philosophies and East Asian literature, as I did my major on Japanese, Korean & Chinese history.
And I get it all, things are complicated and romanticising your elders is natural, and filial piety is hard to live by but important still I think. Though it does require not thinking the father perfect lest you will end up all the more disappointed later on.
With respect, the Papacy despite its issues (not denying it) is still the only way to go. As St. Peter once said, "to whom shall we go?"
I grew up in a low church evangelical setting. I'm familiar with "churches" breaking apart because of doctrinal issues or egos. This is where an overly spiritualized view of what "the Church" leads.
So issue goes, how do we live up to the Gautier's ideal even in the face of bad actors within the Church (who unfortunately had the Pope's ear). Honestly, I'm not sure. But I do know there is nobility in knights who are obedient to their lords even if said lords were not particularly good people. It's easy to obey when you're rewarded for your obedience. And I think this is (one reason) why God allows bad actors to enter into the Church, to test us.
So that's my take on that particular issue. Anyways, I'm looking forward to see what you have to say about the other "commandments" of chivalry. I'm actually aware of Gautier's book and have dug through a little bit thanks to the Internet Archive, though I didn't get very far for whatever reason.
I found the "Ten Commandments of Chivalry" (which I first learned from Charles Coulombe) in particular to be very eye opening. That's how I understand that chivalry is more than "simping" for some girl.
Good point, and I merely meant that we should follow the teachings, but not the blind actors
I trace my religious and ethnic heritage back to the founding stock of New England Calvinists. Certainly like any cultural and religious group they have their flaws and mistakes. But they recognized the reality of and irremovability of hierarchy and God's abiding sovereignty. They led the way in the struggle for independence. They sought to promote strong and effective governance to the best of their ability.
Many of their successor denominational groups have copped out to lazy Romans 13 application and political compromise, but I won't. And I hold onto the good within my local congregation and seek to challenge Current Year thinking if and when it ever reads it's ugly heads.
Good on you, mon ami I myself am French Catholique. And the thing is we tend to follow the Church up until she acts like a buffoon or contradicts France, and her various former colonies' peoples' wishes. So that for example Bergoglio is not prayed for to my knowledge in masses, and is resented, with the French Catechisme claiming that France is special in God's eyes.
So we have always tended to be 'Bible & France first, and Church under advisory', as a people, which I guess is why I see no contradiction in honouring it but favouring my people and the Bible more. The sort of nonsense Bergoglio is getting up to is ridiculous, and insulting.
So yeah totally agree with you that God's teachings should come first, and speaking to other Catholics the world over it seems to be the general opinion.
Do you have a time table for this series to run? I got a short story scheduled with Léon Gautier’s work as the main character’s focus. And I kind of want to see if I’m on the right track. My character that’s following the code is a child. I don’t want to distract from your work with a flawed child's point of view. Also it should be a novelette and might rewrite it.
Sure, so it is a history story? I could definitely read it and will include it as part of my reviews in the coming days as I'm also reading a piece by Maryh and Alexander Semenyuk I think it is, so I'll put yours into the same review I'm hoping to have it done for Tuesday or Thursday.
Not history. It's an Invasion Day story. Claudius van Felt deals with his difficult childhood by following the Code of Chivalry. As he understands it. Then the aliens attack. So, dark comedy, super hero, urban fantasy. Yours is a more serious work. I'm going to reschedule. As of now it'll post Fed 10th. I want to read yours before making a final post. I see it as a timing thing.
We need more positive adventure, hero fiction. I would take a lighter hand to this but Invasion Day is not meant to be serious and Claudius is about 16 years old. So he quotes the Code to himself as he confronts problems. I'm still considering this one a ruff draft of a bigger story later. Invasion Day: The Monster.
Superhero? I'm not a fan of that genre, BUT this sounds fascinant, and add to that that my dad's name was Claude (French variant of Claudius) and you've got me sold. So okay, I'm gonna read it, please tag me when it comes out and I will analyse and review it in a post (I'm begging here especially since you're including Chivalry also with it).
Ps- when you pray for "The intentions of the Pope" in the Rosary, you aren't praying for that particular Pope's intentions, but the universal intentions that every good Pope should have. This comes with a plenary indulgence too.
Ah okay fair enough
I will have a raIther long answer to this. The Church was formed by Jesus under Peter. Mt 16:"[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it."
Nothing evil, and nothing will overcome HIS CHURCH over PETER.
Jesus put an Authority over his Church for a reason. As you can easily see, without an authority, a denomination falls into cultural lies and appeasement and loses the Truth. You see denominations that approve of abortion, etc.
2. The Church IS Jesus. "I am the way, the Truth and the Life," jhn 14:6, RSV
When Saul then later Paul was knocked to the ground by Jesus, He said
[4] "And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" Acts 9:4. RSV
Jesus didn't say, why do you persecute MY PEOPLE, but ME?
The Church And He ARE ONE.
3. The problem of Francis. The Pope, because of his office, has the God given ability of Infallibilty. He can't make an error teaching a Church DOCTRINE of faith or morals. He is NOT impeccable, however, which means that every word out of his mouth is perfect.
Francis often tetters on the edge of teaching heresy. There, I said it.
But he doesn't cross the line. Often, he uses "pastoral concerns" to cover his near heresy.
In other words, 'be kind, darnnit, and stop being 'rigid', seems to be his hang- up. He forgets that ultimately teaching Truth is the ultimate Love, because Jesus IS Truth and Love. Only these things together are agape Love- or Love that truly works for the good of the other. Jesus taught hard Truths in love.
4. We had had much worse Pope's in history and the Church is still here. This is proof that the Church is supernatural.
5. What to do with Francis? My strategery.
-We do owe him respect as Holy Father.
-Pray for him. He is surrounded by evil and I think he has lost the voice of Jesus.
-Trust that Jesus will take care of his Church. Jesus will also smite a Pope before he falls into heresy.
- learn your faith inside and out.
6. "Pope Fiction" by Patrick Madrid is an enlightening book about this area. A quick read.
Did I answer everything?
If not, ask again.
I tend to think of Popes as mortal, but I do understand your perspective, I just tend to think of Jesus as the guide and the Church second, with my nature being one of suspicion towards Popes due to the nature of those such as Alexander VI.
I would say we need to obey the Church and not the poor church leaders of today. The Church exists in the past, the present and the future. And therefore, we continue to share the Gospel in line with the traditions laid down for us.
If a Modern or Post-Modern church leader presents ideas outside these traditions, or even contradictory ideas, they are to be ignored. And we continue to obey the Church’s teaching throughout time.
A final point, there is a difference between the King of England and the Crown. They are two separate things.
Equally, Pope Francis is different to the Papal See. Francis is the human who occupies this at the moment. This may not be accurate Catholic teachings, but it’s how I see things.
All good points, I do agree.
Good stuff. Enjoyed building the foundation on Augustine.
I'll have to read the City of God again soon, thanks for the reminder Mr. Bryant!
A friend was a missionary in pagan parts. It was hard for him to explain all this church stuff to heathens and it ended up all boiling down to something along the lines of “Look, just ask God what he wants you to do, and then go do it.” Not a very financially viable business model in an industry where the standard membership fee is a 10% tithe. He’s not a missionary anymore but he still lives among the pagans, who are really wonderful, special people. Church or no church, we’re all free to ask God: where are you and where should I be?
10% tithe? And yeah sounds like a tough business model.
All their talk of tithing makes me wonder what Aesop meant in his fable about the wooden god.
Good point, sorry for taking so long to reply. I've begun to think that the more you turn faith into a business, or a concrete organisation the more you move away from the teachings, and the lessons of God, which weirdly seems to offend some I know and have met here and in other places. I just don't like mixing money and faith together.
Agreed. Can’t take money to the afterlife.
Exactement
Oh I see, that's interesting, hmm back in the day the Jesuits would favour a confrontational approach where they'd use traditional philosophy and classic lit, and knowledge of the other culture's lit to deconstruct it, and then paint a rosier image of Christianity. This was why they were dubbed by some historians the 'shock-troopers of the Faith'. Trouble is that modern historians came to hate them, while the actual Jesuits were a fascinating bunch back when they were responsible for converting people to Christianity.
As to your friend sounds like he had an interesting career. I think that what is most important is a personal relationship with God, and not one where you have an intermediary as intermediaries tend to if they are corrupted mislead you. Though, this is not always the case, some priests I've known for example are excellent and inspiring guys, and hilarious (i've known two who could have been (and kind of should also been) stand-up comedians.
My how the Jesuits have fallen.
Yep
Jesuits are generally very cerebral. They were tasked with reversing the Protestant reformation. Obviously, they failed. One really great spiritual gift they gave us is the Discernment of Spirits, or The Rules of St Ignatius. I spent a year studying these and it was invaluable in my spiritual life. If you ever get a chance to learn these, do. Gallagher, online is great too.
That's pretty cool, I'd love to learn the Discernment of Spirits & Rules of St-Ignatius, is there a good site or book you might recommend on these topics?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13JTc5XP6M0
website
https://www.frtimothygallagher.org/
Of course. Its best to find a retreat with a Good director but if thats not available, this book is Great. He is an Oblate of the Virgin Mary. the community that i studied with. https://www.amazon.com/Discernment-Spirits-Ignatian-Everyday-Living/dp/0824522915/ref=asc_df_0824522915/?adgrpid=63700707018&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtaOtBhCwARIsAN_x-3L8Tz-KhKzx9eHp0iBs9c3NGepa_1Xqlx28VXhXLMfiysyHdRUpWscaAnGOEALw_wcB&hvadid=312736349443&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl&hvlocint&hvlocphy=9017228&hvnetw=g&hvpone&hvpos&hvptwo&hvqmt&hvrand=9750895902271400294&hvtargid=pla-435539743885&linkCode=df0&mcid=8e321fdea6143a2faed0441882b7344a&psc=1&ref&tag
hope this link works. i not used to this laptop yet
Np, it worked and thanks
Just some thoughts.
" Wherever Two or more are gathered in my name, there I Am."
Also;
A believer, is host to the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.
It is that presence, the Shekina, that sanctifies a temple/church.
Taken together,
What do those facts mean?
Which Church?
What is Church?
Is the supreme authority, GOD, The Holy Spirit, or
A priest?
I am not proposing answers here,
These are Vital questions to resolve I do believe.
Talk to GOD.
I’m new to all this religion.. which Bible is the true Bible.
It depends on which church you attend. 🙂
All the Christian Bibles use the same text, except some have more books than others.
The key though, is not which Bible, but how to interpret it. It is an ancient book, which has an ancient worldview. If you read it without appreciating this, you can come to some poor conclusions.
I’d start by getting a good study Bible with notes on how to apply it to your life. Ask your priest or pastor. 👍🏽
I just bought the Geneva Bible 1599 edition .. I don’t have a group
Thank you 😊
I myself stick to a 1917 French translation which is a Catholic one
Is it challoner rheims Bible?
Just checked I got the date wrong, it is a 1910 (dunno why I was thinking 1917) Louis Seconde Bible.
That argument could go on forever. First, find one that you will read. And read the Gospels. Many like the NIV Bible. I prefer the RSV Catholic version.
I think we must honour our parents and elders, but that we should recognise their flaws alongside their virtues. True love isn't the refusal to see another's flaws but loving the person in spite of their flaws or flaws and all.
As to nobles and monarchs used to like them, then had a rude awakening a few years ago, and then when it came to Popes I've always been suspicious of them. I'm a historian, so reading the history and how many Popes were crooks and gangsters left me cold towards the office, St-Peter set a high bar but even he was criticised at the time by St-Paul (my fav Saint alongside St-Jehanne D'Arc). So my view is that if Paul could criticise and hold Peter's feet to the fire so can we mere mortals.
We shouldn't worship the pope and say he's infallible as only God is infallible. And Popes aren't God, somehow I think the two have blurred at some point in people's eyes. Also Tolkien one of the men I admire the most was critical of many Popes, and for legitimate reasons.
So yeah I definitely agree avec vous there on this topic.
I'm familiar with the Mandate of Heaven, Confucius and other such philosophies and East Asian literature, as I did my major on Japanese, Korean & Chinese history.
And I get it all, things are complicated and romanticising your elders is natural, and filial piety is hard to live by but important still I think. Though it does require not thinking the father perfect lest you will end up all the more disappointed later on.