An interesting article, it made think of what would be a "national myth" for the Indonesian nation. One candidate I can think of is 'The Malay Annals/Sejarah Melayu' which connects the Malay people to Alexander the Great. Of course, that's the Malay and Muslim side of things. Then there's the 'Nagarakretagama' which is an Old Javanese poem about the Majapahit Empire and has a more Buddhist/Hindu perspective. Apparently, that poem served as an inspiration for the Indonesian independence movement, so it has to count for something.
As for the Christians and other ethnic groups (important to me as a Batak), well unfortunately I can't think of any. But I remember after publishing an article about the history of Christian missionaries to North Sumatra/Lake Toba, the people in my dad's Batak Lutheran church went ga ga over it because it was the first time their story was told in English, so there's a yearning for that sort of epic. This brings me to your point here...
"Christians might say; ‘well just find Christ’ but in what form?"
For one thing, there's the Bible. The Old Testament comes to mind. Pardon the incoming rant, but I just can't stand it when people (whether they be pagan-adjacent ignoramuses or the Zionists with their lunatic ideas) try to pretend that the Bible/Old Testament is just a history/mythology for the Jewish people. Well, excuse me. But last time I check Adam and Eve (not to mention Noah too) were ancestors of the entire human race, not just the Jews. Abraham is the Father of the Faithful, not just the Jews. And this is why I like to harp on the stupidity of Darwinism and people who would countersignal creationism. Evolution is literally a counter-myth to what humanity have understood for most of their history until 200 years ago or so.
That's probably why I make use of Old Testament references in The Santara Commentaries even though it's my attempt to make an Indonesian mythic story. Because the Bible is my story too. Men like Nommensen didn't risk their lives going to the jungles of Sumatra so my people can read Jewish mythologies.
Okay you tackle a lot of ideas here, I really do like them. It sounds like each of the Indonesian tribes have their own great tales save for the Balak. I think though that their reaction to a historic chronicle is a clue that they might be quite open to a grand sweeping narrative the likes of which I spoke of in my article.
As to the Bible I take it as history also, and my viewpoint was not to denigrate the Old Testament or the Gospels, but merely to state that they are to my mind required reading. However, beautiful as they are we do need the eternal Truth that they convey interpreted and translated into the entertaining form of Romance. That is to say that a Great Romance is the story people tell about themselves, and that it is about courting a people.
The Bible brings them closer to God yes, but people wish to watch, read and ponder other things and one great halfway point is the Great Romance. Romance makes a people feel special, makes them feel exceptional and fills them with manifest destiny and self-love, even as it confirms to them they have made a difference in the world even as the Bible redeems their souls.
I sincerely hope Santara Commentaries becomes that for the Indonesian people, as I see a lot of division along religious lines there, and think what could convert more people and unify more people together might just be such a grand sweeping narrative epic.
I think Don Quixote is a little too subversive to be a proper epic it is a Spanish Game of Thrones of sorts, and 3 Mousquetaires is quite good but the French don't regard it as such. Most of those I speak to don't regard it as a National Epic of sorts, it is rather more like our Lord Dunsany to an extent, and Hunchback and Miserables are wondrous also but they are akin to Pillars.
When talking the French, they greatly appreciate these works and like them but they only reinforce the sense of inferiority towards Tolkien and Howard as there's no such great works set in a primordial France as there are for England & Texas.
It's odd that the French don't consider the Musketeers to be an Epic, but the English do. They are always making serials about the musketeers.
Don Quixote wasn't anywhere near the game of thrones. You know the story right? A knight who tries to dazzle his lady love by fighting giants. Only the giants turn out to be windmills.
It where we get the saying "tilting at windmills."
Oui, but the thing is that you compare 3 Mousquetaires to Lord of the Rings and it isn’t the same thing, this is the problem in our national psyche. We’ve been surpassed in our minds, this is the trouble, most French love Mousquetaires but feel it to be an inferior work alongside Comte de Monte Cristo to Tolkien and Howard.
As to Don Quixote I meant only that it deconstructs the traditional knightly stories, those which were at the heart of the Spanish literary tradition at the time.
The story of the Corps of Discovery has good potential to be one of America's Great Romances. Set in a time when there was still plenty of enchantment and mystery left, a good cast of interesting characters (Sacagawea, Lewis, Clark, York, Jefferson, Charboneau and the other voyageurs, the many people they meet along the way, etc.), epic feats of tenacious bravery, loyalty, and diplomacy. The inciting incident is a desire to engage with the beautiful richness of the natural world and the cultural landscape spanning the many nations of the continent.
I'm mostly familiar with the story from oral tradition, but I believe there are many diaries and accounts by the participants. I have not read this particular book but it is representative of they types of accounts available:
There is also a book that I can't remember at the moment that is composed from a compilation of various diary entries and accounts that tell the story of the great and critical part played in the adventure by Sacagawea.
As I read this, I couldn't help but wonder what the American Great Romance would be. The stories which came to mind were all movies. Drums Along the Mohawk. The Searchers. High Noon. Gettysburg. Sergeant York. And, God help me, The Blues Brothers. I suppose that says something about us, in itself.
I think it might just be Hour of the Dragon, the thing though is that America’s become distance from it.
Movies are good at conveying ideas and stories, but ultimately I’ve the view they can offer interpretations of a Great Romance but can’t provide one in and of itself oddly enough. Adaptations are important though, and great films play a similar role in reinforcing a civilizations’ values and ideals.
An interesting article, it made think of what would be a "national myth" for the Indonesian nation. One candidate I can think of is 'The Malay Annals/Sejarah Melayu' which connects the Malay people to Alexander the Great. Of course, that's the Malay and Muslim side of things. Then there's the 'Nagarakretagama' which is an Old Javanese poem about the Majapahit Empire and has a more Buddhist/Hindu perspective. Apparently, that poem served as an inspiration for the Indonesian independence movement, so it has to count for something.
As for the Christians and other ethnic groups (important to me as a Batak), well unfortunately I can't think of any. But I remember after publishing an article about the history of Christian missionaries to North Sumatra/Lake Toba, the people in my dad's Batak Lutheran church went ga ga over it because it was the first time their story was told in English, so there's a yearning for that sort of epic. This brings me to your point here...
"Christians might say; ‘well just find Christ’ but in what form?"
For one thing, there's the Bible. The Old Testament comes to mind. Pardon the incoming rant, but I just can't stand it when people (whether they be pagan-adjacent ignoramuses or the Zionists with their lunatic ideas) try to pretend that the Bible/Old Testament is just a history/mythology for the Jewish people. Well, excuse me. But last time I check Adam and Eve (not to mention Noah too) were ancestors of the entire human race, not just the Jews. Abraham is the Father of the Faithful, not just the Jews. And this is why I like to harp on the stupidity of Darwinism and people who would countersignal creationism. Evolution is literally a counter-myth to what humanity have understood for most of their history until 200 years ago or so.
That's probably why I make use of Old Testament references in The Santara Commentaries even though it's my attempt to make an Indonesian mythic story. Because the Bible is my story too. Men like Nommensen didn't risk their lives going to the jungles of Sumatra so my people can read Jewish mythologies.
Okay you tackle a lot of ideas here, I really do like them. It sounds like each of the Indonesian tribes have their own great tales save for the Balak. I think though that their reaction to a historic chronicle is a clue that they might be quite open to a grand sweeping narrative the likes of which I spoke of in my article.
As to the Bible I take it as history also, and my viewpoint was not to denigrate the Old Testament or the Gospels, but merely to state that they are to my mind required reading. However, beautiful as they are we do need the eternal Truth that they convey interpreted and translated into the entertaining form of Romance. That is to say that a Great Romance is the story people tell about themselves, and that it is about courting a people.
The Bible brings them closer to God yes, but people wish to watch, read and ponder other things and one great halfway point is the Great Romance. Romance makes a people feel special, makes them feel exceptional and fills them with manifest destiny and self-love, even as it confirms to them they have made a difference in the world even as the Bible redeems their souls.
I sincerely hope Santara Commentaries becomes that for the Indonesian people, as I see a lot of division along religious lines there, and think what could convert more people and unify more people together might just be such a grand sweeping narrative epic.
I would have thought that the Three Musketeers and Hunchback of Notre Dame would be French Romances.
The Spanish should have, Don Quixote.
I think Don Quixote is a little too subversive to be a proper epic it is a Spanish Game of Thrones of sorts, and 3 Mousquetaires is quite good but the French don't regard it as such. Most of those I speak to don't regard it as a National Epic of sorts, it is rather more like our Lord Dunsany to an extent, and Hunchback and Miserables are wondrous also but they are akin to Pillars.
When talking the French, they greatly appreciate these works and like them but they only reinforce the sense of inferiority towards Tolkien and Howard as there's no such great works set in a primordial France as there are for England & Texas.
It's odd that the French don't consider the Musketeers to be an Epic, but the English do. They are always making serials about the musketeers.
Don Quixote wasn't anywhere near the game of thrones. You know the story right? A knight who tries to dazzle his lady love by fighting giants. Only the giants turn out to be windmills.
It where we get the saying "tilting at windmills."
Oui, but the thing is that you compare 3 Mousquetaires to Lord of the Rings and it isn’t the same thing, this is the problem in our national psyche. We’ve been surpassed in our minds, this is the trouble, most French love Mousquetaires but feel it to be an inferior work alongside Comte de Monte Cristo to Tolkien and Howard.
As to Don Quixote I meant only that it deconstructs the traditional knightly stories, those which were at the heart of the Spanish literary tradition at the time.
Another French one, more obscure nowadays, is "Gil Blas".
Bon point
The story of the Corps of Discovery has good potential to be one of America's Great Romances. Set in a time when there was still plenty of enchantment and mystery left, a good cast of interesting characters (Sacagawea, Lewis, Clark, York, Jefferson, Charboneau and the other voyageurs, the many people they meet along the way, etc.), epic feats of tenacious bravery, loyalty, and diplomacy. The inciting incident is a desire to engage with the beautiful richness of the natural world and the cultural landscape spanning the many nations of the continent.
Ohhh okay, cool I”ve never heard of it before can you tell me who wrote it? It sounds really interesting.
I'm mostly familiar with the story from oral tradition, but I believe there are many diaries and accounts by the participants. I have not read this particular book but it is representative of they types of accounts available:
https://archive.org/details/journalofvoyages00gass/page/n1/mode/2up
There is also a book that I can't remember at the moment that is composed from a compilation of various diary entries and accounts that tell the story of the great and critical part played in the adventure by Sacagawea.
Fascinant, I’ll take a look at it, thanks for recommending it.
As I read this, I couldn't help but wonder what the American Great Romance would be. The stories which came to mind were all movies. Drums Along the Mohawk. The Searchers. High Noon. Gettysburg. Sergeant York. And, God help me, The Blues Brothers. I suppose that says something about us, in itself.
I think it might just be Hour of the Dragon, the thing though is that America’s become distance from it.
Movies are good at conveying ideas and stories, but ultimately I’ve the view they can offer interpretations of a Great Romance but can’t provide one in and of itself oddly enough. Adaptations are important though, and great films play a similar role in reinforcing a civilizations’ values and ideals.
I'm skeptical about Hour of the Dragon, but I must admit that I haven't read it. You've inspired me to add it to my reading queue.
That’s fine, it is quite good I do hope you like it.