I thought your subheader was perfect. The ultimate tale of love and loss. It's those two things exactly that come together when Achilles and Priam share a meal. Both are hurt because of the other but instead of seeking revenge each seeks to alleviate the other's pain. Some have defined love as will the good of the other, and I can't think of too many better examples of this notion. Either way it's one of the great redemptive moments of Western literature in imo.
Agreed, it is a moment of deepest sorrow and pain. It is one scene that the Troy movie also nailed and stood out to me as the greatest adaptation of my favourite moment in the Iliad.
It is indeed one of the greatest redemptive moments in all of Occidental civilizations’ literatures.
there is also no reason to claim Patroclus and Achilles are cousins, in fact it is explicitly mentioned that they are not ‘Patroclus was sent to the house of Priam… after he killed… over an argument about knucklebones’. Achilles also said that he wished Briseis got hit by an arrow so it is not fair to say he loved her. while this article makes some good points many are unfounded and unnecessarily critical of scholars making valid points and grounded theories
hey so ‘siblings’ born of the same god but different mortal parents are not often called siblings in Greek texts, this is especially true when the relation is so distant so Achilles and Patroclus would not have had the familial ties a modern audience would link with second cousins. Scholars like Edith Hall, Barbra Graziosi, robert fowler ect all have papers on this you can find online - and all of the listed have entertained the theory of a romantic link between the two so yes it would be considered grounded and not ‘degenerate’ as you put it
We’ll just have to agree to disagree Hollham, I’m glad you liked the article. As to the Romantic link it is absolutely disgusting and degenerate and any academic who entertains it is a disgrace. Period.
I thought your subheader was perfect. The ultimate tale of love and loss. It's those two things exactly that come together when Achilles and Priam share a meal. Both are hurt because of the other but instead of seeking revenge each seeks to alleviate the other's pain. Some have defined love as will the good of the other, and I can't think of too many better examples of this notion. Either way it's one of the great redemptive moments of Western literature in imo.
Agreed, it is a moment of deepest sorrow and pain. It is one scene that the Troy movie also nailed and stood out to me as the greatest adaptation of my favourite moment in the Iliad.
It is indeed one of the greatest redemptive moments in all of Occidental civilizations’ literatures.
Agreed. It has been interesting that I have read this classic for the first time in my late sixties. Well, better late than never.
Never too late madame. Your essays on this topic have inspired me to write my own.
there is also no reason to claim Patroclus and Achilles are cousins, in fact it is explicitly mentioned that they are not ‘Patroclus was sent to the house of Priam… after he killed… over an argument about knucklebones’. Achilles also said that he wished Briseis got hit by an arrow so it is not fair to say he loved her. while this article makes some good points many are unfounded and unnecessarily critical of scholars making valid points and grounded theories
Achilles and Patroclus are considered cousins, specifically first cousins once removed.
So yeah you’re wrong. No need to freak out.
hey so ‘siblings’ born of the same god but different mortal parents are not often called siblings in Greek texts, this is especially true when the relation is so distant so Achilles and Patroclus would not have had the familial ties a modern audience would link with second cousins. Scholars like Edith Hall, Barbra Graziosi, robert fowler ect all have papers on this you can find online - and all of the listed have entertained the theory of a romantic link between the two so yes it would be considered grounded and not ‘degenerate’ as you put it
We’ll just have to agree to disagree Hollham, I’m glad you liked the article. As to the Romantic link it is absolutely disgusting and degenerate and any academic who entertains it is a disgrace. Period.