‘Strong and independent’. Such a vague concept. Strong in what way- physical, mental, courage? And independent of what, and whom?
A lot of it comes down to how the male author views women. Did he know a lot of women in his life, family or otherwise? Did he observe them in action in the real world? Or did he grow up in an environment where they were not present, or barely present at all?
And then we have to consider what media he consumed growing up. Tolkien, for example, was extremely familiar with ancient and medieval literature, which had a tendency to portray women remotely as outlines and plot devices rather than people. (Hence Galadriel and arguably Arwen and Eowyn). Whereas the media I grew up with, and which I interact with now, portrays girls and women in a very large set of different manners, with no one model being thought of as "the best", and nobody idealized or remote from reality unless to treat them as a a joke. So my female characters take many forms and are leading characters in my story because the formats insist they be so (like Tolkien's various "men").
The point is, as Whitman put it, that female characters are large, and contain multitudes.
As to those present in our lives, I can safely say I’ve been blessed to have plenty of female and male loved ones in my life so that I’ve a great deal to be inspired by. Hope to also have both a daughter and son that I might draw inspiration from them and pass down what I know to them.
I agree. The entire idea that women need to be more masculine in order to be strong is absurd. No sword battle can compare to the often unforgiving trials of motherhood. (I swear I’ve said this so much in the last several years that record isn’t broken, it’s been demolished into utter ash at this point).
This is right on: "women protect boys, and Men protect Women." We see this in Tolkien's reimagining of the Vǫlsung legend in his Völsungakviða en nýja, where Brynhild urges Sigurd to win a kingdom with the verses: "Lands lie before thee / thy lordship win!"
Well, I beg to differ: being an strong and independent woman has nothing to do with being a man at all: women like Hildebranda de Bingen, the Middle Age queens (María de Molina for example), Saint Therese of Jesus or, for example, queen Zenobia de Palmyra were actually strong and independent, but that didn't mean that they wanted to fight as a very strong man (but if needed, they'd do it... as we have examples in history like María Pita -who actually fought herself in the battle of La Coruña, after her husband was killed, so he wasn't there to actually "protect" her-... in Spain we have several) or were insufferable like spoilt teenagers.
A strong and independent woman would never fall in love with someone like Sauron in disguise, specially because Galadriel knew the intentions of the people: that was why she didn't give the three hairs Feanor ask her to build The Silmarils, but then she gave them to Gimli in Lord of the Rings, as she knew the latter was actually good at heart.
That is, I think the real difference is that they don't understand the characters to an extent that I believe they want them to be hated if they are actually considered good in the books, and loved if they are not (the orc family is very interesting or Sauron being a good guy, nearly falling in love, how romantid... and actually stupid and unrealistic: a guy who wanted domination of every creature by order he wanted to impose, in love... hehehe). In fact, there were people that said that it looked like they wanted Sauron to be considered a victim of Galadriel, an idea that is so stupid to even consider by the RoP people, that only guys like Mel Brooks would have considered to make a comical film of Middle Earth. But I don't think Amazon wanted to do a kind of Airplane! with Leslie Nielsen but about Middle Earth.
I understand your position but the actual strength and independence has nothing to do with physical strength but with mental strength, a very interesting misunderstanding. But that strength and independence is very dangerous in a society that wants to control even your thoughts just in case they are not deemed "convenient".
‘Strong and independent’. Such a vague concept. Strong in what way- physical, mental, courage? And independent of what, and whom?
A lot of it comes down to how the male author views women. Did he know a lot of women in his life, family or otherwise? Did he observe them in action in the real world? Or did he grow up in an environment where they were not present, or barely present at all?
And then we have to consider what media he consumed growing up. Tolkien, for example, was extremely familiar with ancient and medieval literature, which had a tendency to portray women remotely as outlines and plot devices rather than people. (Hence Galadriel and arguably Arwen and Eowyn). Whereas the media I grew up with, and which I interact with now, portrays girls and women in a very large set of different manners, with no one model being thought of as "the best", and nobody idealized or remote from reality unless to treat them as a a joke. So my female characters take many forms and are leading characters in my story because the formats insist they be so (like Tolkien's various "men").
The point is, as Whitman put it, that female characters are large, and contain multitudes.
Agreed, though we mustn’t ever call them large ;)
As to those present in our lives, I can safely say I’ve been blessed to have plenty of female and male loved ones in my life so that I’ve a great deal to be inspired by. Hope to also have both a daughter and son that I might draw inspiration from them and pass down what I know to them.
I agree. The entire idea that women need to be more masculine in order to be strong is absurd. No sword battle can compare to the often unforgiving trials of motherhood. (I swear I’ve said this so much in the last several years that record isn’t broken, it’s been demolished into utter ash at this point).
True, and if you must have them it’s possible to be absolutely respectful and realistic and to retain the feminine. Failure to do so is a decision.
There's so much to unpack in this article. It might be worthy of an essay in response.
There are some things I agree with and some things that I will have to work through.
Gotcha and np go ahead.
This is right on: "women protect boys, and Men protect Women." We see this in Tolkien's reimagining of the Vǫlsung legend in his Völsungakviða en nýja, where Brynhild urges Sigurd to win a kingdom with the verses: "Lands lie before thee / thy lordship win!"
Agreed love that verse! Thanks so much for posting it! Tolkien is a writer more people should aspire after as he set the benchmark.
Well, I beg to differ: being an strong and independent woman has nothing to do with being a man at all: women like Hildebranda de Bingen, the Middle Age queens (María de Molina for example), Saint Therese of Jesus or, for example, queen Zenobia de Palmyra were actually strong and independent, but that didn't mean that they wanted to fight as a very strong man (but if needed, they'd do it... as we have examples in history like María Pita -who actually fought herself in the battle of La Coruña, after her husband was killed, so he wasn't there to actually "protect" her-... in Spain we have several) or were insufferable like spoilt teenagers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/María_de_Molina
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/María_Pita
A strong and independent woman would never fall in love with someone like Sauron in disguise, specially because Galadriel knew the intentions of the people: that was why she didn't give the three hairs Feanor ask her to build The Silmarils, but then she gave them to Gimli in Lord of the Rings, as she knew the latter was actually good at heart.
That is, I think the real difference is that they don't understand the characters to an extent that I believe they want them to be hated if they are actually considered good in the books, and loved if they are not (the orc family is very interesting or Sauron being a good guy, nearly falling in love, how romantid... and actually stupid and unrealistic: a guy who wanted domination of every creature by order he wanted to impose, in love... hehehe). In fact, there were people that said that it looked like they wanted Sauron to be considered a victim of Galadriel, an idea that is so stupid to even consider by the RoP people, that only guys like Mel Brooks would have considered to make a comical film of Middle Earth. But I don't think Amazon wanted to do a kind of Airplane! with Leslie Nielsen but about Middle Earth.
I understand your position but the actual strength and independence has nothing to do with physical strength but with mental strength, a very interesting misunderstanding. But that strength and independence is very dangerous in a society that wants to control even your thoughts just in case they are not deemed "convenient".
Kara admires these women.