women are there to care for and nurture the nation and culture.
That, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with modern women. they neither care for or nurture the nation and culture. All they seem to care about and nurture is themselves, usually at the cost of the nation and culture.
Good point, though there are still nations with good women, it is why many countries in Asia, Eastern Europe and Africa are still flourishing. I also think that French women are either selfish or truly feminine and tradition (they always seem one or the other, so that you have a one in two chances with them, and it is getting that they are becoming more and more traditional).
Yes. In a lot of Disney children’s movies, they use “making bad decisions” as a plot device to create dramatic situations, and I always found it unpleasant to watch. Aladdin doubling down on a lie. The lion cub going out into the wadi. Cinderella was just emotionally weak to submit to constant humiliation. I don’t remember Snow White or the others—growing up, I mostly watched Ghibli movies on videotape because reception was bad and we only had three channels, so choices were limited. Anyway, Mulan is IMHO great!
Oh I see, and I really loved the old Disney movies such as B&B & Lion King, but Mulan always had a special place in my heart because I really loved Mulan's love for her dad, as I adored mine.
One of the most powerful Terran women in my series, Vasilisa the spacer:
“Nobody can do to you, what you do to yourself, Gudrun. That is one of the wisdoms my parents taught me while I was still a small child; no older than five was I, and it will stick with me for the rest of my life. The time wasted, the opportunities for happiness squandered... it was all your doing. What you did after waking up from that idiotic dream was again, your doing. People can change, but not all people can do so quickly or on time. All living, sentient beings, they are given a chance to build their own happiness by being born in the first place. Squandering that chance is the ultimate slap in the face of all those who were denied this opportunity. The children whose sparks are snuffed in the womb, those captured early on and sold into slavery, those who, for the lack of food or other necessities die prematurely, and those,” – Vasilisa looked at her husband with a most intense, sad gaze – “whose childhoods were stolen by an invader. So many, countless billions have suffered insurmountable pain, died without even taking a breath of air, for us to sit and look at our years, our precious years fly by, without being lived to the fullest!”
“The purpose of life is to be lived, happiness attained, your physical and intellectual progeny protected and then, multiplied. You cannot truly find a purpose in living without having friends, without loving someone or without creating a life. Nurturing life is the highest form of happiness, it is the true nature of our Universe – everything else is secondary. For squandering your precious chance is truly the greatest insult to those who begged for one single breath of life and were denied, the little ones who even now wither, rot away in forgotten, terrible places. Your duty, Gudrun, as one of the living, is to achieve as much happiness during your days as you possibly can – not only for your sake, but for theirs!”
“This... you are taught all of this, from that an early age?!” – Mumbled both happy and confused, Gudrun.
“Yes, Gudrun, this is the Terran way, it is what every Terran woman is ready to lay down her life for.”
I loved that movie as a kid and still enjoy the music and animation today. That said as someone who was 100% the target audience (8 years old when it came out) I’m quite sure you put more thought into this analysis than was put into the song when writing it. The woman they are imagining is simply playing to the stereotype of the type of man singing about her, the guy who fancies himself an action hero wants an adoring damsel in distress, the fat guy wants a girl who can cook etc. Their rejection of Mulan’s self description builds on Bring Honor to Us All, the idea that Mulan will never be accepted for herself. Perhaps for those in an Asian culture or exposed to one this song is interpreted as you describe, but for the intended audience, western girls, that song was about everything wrong with those stereotypes.
The men are singing about the superficial way a woman can make them happy, there is no discussion of this dream woman’s character, her intelligence, or with the exception of Chien-Po of her skills or abilities and even that is about what she can do for him and not what she is capable of for herself. To the intended audience this song wasn’t a celebration of femininity or the way women compliment men but a condemnation of it.
“The message here is that men are there to protect the nation and culture, and women are there to care for and nurture the nation and culture.” Zero western girls or women took that message from the song or the movie in general. The message that audience got was that Mulan defied tradition, in doing so saved China, girls can do anything boys can do including becoming mighty warriors. Tradition is something bad that holds women and girls back and should be torn down.
As the Emperor says “I've heard a great deal about you, Fa Mulan. You stole your father's armor, ran away from home. Impersonated a soldier, deceived your commanding officer, dishonored the Chinese Army, destroyed my palace! And... You have saved us all.”
For western little girls this movie was an animated GI Jane, not a celebration of traditional gender roles.
Very true, this was my brother's essay, I simply posted it.
As to the nature of the song certainly it condemns tradition, but there is something of the truth there about how men in armies will sing so, of the women they crave or have left back home. Sadly, where the animators had a desire to be funny, and to simply entertain, it is obvious the studio had their own message.
I think that to say tradition is bad, is wrong. But that said, I think this movie does have some good points to it, and that this song does show how much Mulan is alienated from those around her, and how she is seeking what we all seek; a home.
As to what my brother is thinking with this essay, I can't say as I've not read the essay yet but will have to (we share the substack, this was his essay for to-day Tuesday), in order to better understand your points and where I might disagree with him on.
I am not saying that I agree with the messages this movie sent to little girls. I merely find it ironic that many of the men commenting on this essay are lamenting the loss of traditional women and traditional femininity but fail to see that this movie is part of the propaganda that convinced girls that such things were beneath them. At its heart Mulan is a girl power movie, just one told better with more compelling characters than modern Disney.
I've seen examples of women like that down south in Ontario, weirdly women who are very capable physically yet still feminine and beautiful or at least examples of this sort of women I've seen in France & Quebec. So there are women like Mulan, if more feminine like say Ariel still out there.
That said this movie had a propagandist element it cannot be denied, I suppose I look at it more from an entertainment angle out of fondness due to being friendly with some of the animators and having been a child at the time.
I still really enjoy the movie and think it has a variety of good and important messages in it, I just don’t think the benefits of traditional femininity is one of them.
Hmm, gotta give you that one. Which movie do you think teaches traditional femininity the best? I lean towards Little Mermaid or Beauty & the Beast and also Cinderella (I love all three movies).
The girl boss energy is okay under some circumstances. But I do miss the gentle female lead who helps ground the male lead. She is not weaker, nor is she his property, she isn't afraid to be feminine, and she can hold off an attacker in a pinch
I'm trying to bring it back a little of it in Silverbolt with Constance. I once wrote a scene with female lead who asked, "Well why can't I come?"
The male lead replied with, "Do you have powers or magic"
"No."
"Do you have combat and weapon experience?"
"Not really."
"There's your answer."
So instead of getting pissy she gathered information that would be relevant to the plot. She used her connections. I think the bad guy had a twin and it helped, because it explained the villains ability to be in two places at once or something like that
Agreed
Very kind of you
women are there to care for and nurture the nation and culture.
That, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with modern women. they neither care for or nurture the nation and culture. All they seem to care about and nurture is themselves, usually at the cost of the nation and culture.
This is why they call them fefails.
Fefails that's a play on feefees right? Genuinely asking, as some English jokes fly over my head.
It is a combo of female and fail.
AH okay thought so
Good point, though there are still nations with good women, it is why many countries in Asia, Eastern Europe and Africa are still flourishing. I also think that French women are either selfish or truly feminine and tradition (they always seem one or the other, so that you have a one in two chances with them, and it is getting that they are becoming more and more traditional).
Only Disney animation I ever really liked. Nice tribute!
Really? Interesting, it's one of Dan's favourites. I must admit to liking it quite a bit also.
Yes. In a lot of Disney children’s movies, they use “making bad decisions” as a plot device to create dramatic situations, and I always found it unpleasant to watch. Aladdin doubling down on a lie. The lion cub going out into the wadi. Cinderella was just emotionally weak to submit to constant humiliation. I don’t remember Snow White or the others—growing up, I mostly watched Ghibli movies on videotape because reception was bad and we only had three channels, so choices were limited. Anyway, Mulan is IMHO great!
Oh I see, and I really loved the old Disney movies such as B&B & Lion King, but Mulan always had a special place in my heart because I really loved Mulan's love for her dad, as I adored mine.
So totally get it Jonathon.
It seems quite simplistic- I’ve never seen it.
It's a very simplistic movie, and quite entertaining.
One of the most powerful Terran women in my series, Vasilisa the spacer:
“Nobody can do to you, what you do to yourself, Gudrun. That is one of the wisdoms my parents taught me while I was still a small child; no older than five was I, and it will stick with me for the rest of my life. The time wasted, the opportunities for happiness squandered... it was all your doing. What you did after waking up from that idiotic dream was again, your doing. People can change, but not all people can do so quickly or on time. All living, sentient beings, they are given a chance to build their own happiness by being born in the first place. Squandering that chance is the ultimate slap in the face of all those who were denied this opportunity. The children whose sparks are snuffed in the womb, those captured early on and sold into slavery, those who, for the lack of food or other necessities die prematurely, and those,” – Vasilisa looked at her husband with a most intense, sad gaze – “whose childhoods were stolen by an invader. So many, countless billions have suffered insurmountable pain, died without even taking a breath of air, for us to sit and look at our years, our precious years fly by, without being lived to the fullest!”
Cool!
“The purpose of life is to be lived, happiness attained, your physical and intellectual progeny protected and then, multiplied. You cannot truly find a purpose in living without having friends, without loving someone or without creating a life. Nurturing life is the highest form of happiness, it is the true nature of our Universe – everything else is secondary. For squandering your precious chance is truly the greatest insult to those who begged for one single breath of life and were denied, the little ones who even now wither, rot away in forgotten, terrible places. Your duty, Gudrun, as one of the living, is to achieve as much happiness during your days as you possibly can – not only for your sake, but for theirs!”
“This... you are taught all of this, from that an early age?!” – Mumbled both happy and confused, Gudrun.
“Yes, Gudrun, this is the Terran way, it is what every Terran woman is ready to lay down her life for.”
Good quote, might have to analyse this later, probably next week for Sci-Friday
If you would do that, please, read the super short story I posted, titled The Spacer Way: https://theblackknight.substack.com/p/the-spacer-way-42f?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2
I loved that movie as a kid and still enjoy the music and animation today. That said as someone who was 100% the target audience (8 years old when it came out) I’m quite sure you put more thought into this analysis than was put into the song when writing it. The woman they are imagining is simply playing to the stereotype of the type of man singing about her, the guy who fancies himself an action hero wants an adoring damsel in distress, the fat guy wants a girl who can cook etc. Their rejection of Mulan’s self description builds on Bring Honor to Us All, the idea that Mulan will never be accepted for herself. Perhaps for those in an Asian culture or exposed to one this song is interpreted as you describe, but for the intended audience, western girls, that song was about everything wrong with those stereotypes.
The men are singing about the superficial way a woman can make them happy, there is no discussion of this dream woman’s character, her intelligence, or with the exception of Chien-Po of her skills or abilities and even that is about what she can do for him and not what she is capable of for herself. To the intended audience this song wasn’t a celebration of femininity or the way women compliment men but a condemnation of it.
“The message here is that men are there to protect the nation and culture, and women are there to care for and nurture the nation and culture.” Zero western girls or women took that message from the song or the movie in general. The message that audience got was that Mulan defied tradition, in doing so saved China, girls can do anything boys can do including becoming mighty warriors. Tradition is something bad that holds women and girls back and should be torn down.
As the Emperor says “I've heard a great deal about you, Fa Mulan. You stole your father's armor, ran away from home. Impersonated a soldier, deceived your commanding officer, dishonored the Chinese Army, destroyed my palace! And... You have saved us all.”
For western little girls this movie was an animated GI Jane, not a celebration of traditional gender roles.
Very true, this was my brother's essay, I simply posted it.
As to the nature of the song certainly it condemns tradition, but there is something of the truth there about how men in armies will sing so, of the women they crave or have left back home. Sadly, where the animators had a desire to be funny, and to simply entertain, it is obvious the studio had their own message.
I think that to say tradition is bad, is wrong. But that said, I think this movie does have some good points to it, and that this song does show how much Mulan is alienated from those around her, and how she is seeking what we all seek; a home.
As to what my brother is thinking with this essay, I can't say as I've not read the essay yet but will have to (we share the substack, this was his essay for to-day Tuesday), in order to better understand your points and where I might disagree with him on.
I am not saying that I agree with the messages this movie sent to little girls. I merely find it ironic that many of the men commenting on this essay are lamenting the loss of traditional women and traditional femininity but fail to see that this movie is part of the propaganda that convinced girls that such things were beneath them. At its heart Mulan is a girl power movie, just one told better with more compelling characters than modern Disney.
I've seen examples of women like that down south in Ontario, weirdly women who are very capable physically yet still feminine and beautiful or at least examples of this sort of women I've seen in France & Quebec. So there are women like Mulan, if more feminine like say Ariel still out there.
That said this movie had a propagandist element it cannot be denied, I suppose I look at it more from an entertainment angle out of fondness due to being friendly with some of the animators and having been a child at the time.
I still really enjoy the movie and think it has a variety of good and important messages in it, I just don’t think the benefits of traditional femininity is one of them.
Hmm, gotta give you that one. Which movie do you think teaches traditional femininity the best? I lean towards Little Mermaid or Beauty & the Beast and also Cinderella (I love all three movies).
Good point
"The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world."
The girl boss energy is okay under some circumstances. But I do miss the gentle female lead who helps ground the male lead. She is not weaker, nor is she his property, she isn't afraid to be feminine, and she can hold off an attacker in a pinch
Do agree, we need to go back to that era, of female characters I think. I miss it also, you aren't alone Jolan.
I'm trying to bring it back a little of it in Silverbolt with Constance. I once wrote a scene with female lead who asked, "Well why can't I come?"
The male lead replied with, "Do you have powers or magic"
"No."
"Do you have combat and weapon experience?"
"Not really."
"There's your answer."
So instead of getting pissy she gathered information that would be relevant to the plot. She used her connections. I think the bad guy had a twin and it helped, because it explained the villains ability to be in two places at once or something like that
To quote Don Bluth; Good man!